Fair Value (Details - Valuation Technique and Inputs) (USD $) In Thousands, unless otherwise specified	3 Months Ended	12 Months Ended
	Sep. 30, 2014	Dec. 31, 2013
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Fixed maturities	$ 13,950,629	$ 13,593,303
Equities	1,001,307	1,221,053
Other invested assets carried at fair value	104,554	135,139
Funds held directly managed investments carried at fair value	478,968	561,306
Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Fixed maturities	588,918	554,957
Equities	36,802	38,045
Other invested assets carried at fair value	111,805	103,853
Funds held directly managed investments carried at fair value	14,864	15,451
US states, territories and municipalities [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Fixed maturities	130,743	108,380
US states, territories and municipalities [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	2.40%	2.90%
US states, territories and municipalities [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	10.00%	9.90%
US states, territories and municipalities [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	4.70%	5.30%
Asset-backed securities - interest only [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Fixed maturities		21
Asset-backed securities - interest only [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads		5.50%
Asset-backed securities - interest only [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads		10.70%
Asset-backed securities - interest only [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads		8.80%
Asset-backed securities - other [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Fixed maturities	458,175	446,556
Asset-backed securities - other [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	4.00%	4.00%
Asset-backed securities - other [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	12.00%	12.20%
Asset-backed securities - other [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	6.90%	7.10%
Finance [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Equities	13,582	15,483
Finance [Member] | Profitability Analysis [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Equities	5,554	4,724
Finance [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net income multiple	19.0	14.6
Tangible book value multiple	1.3	1.1
Liquidity discount	25.00%	25.00%
Comparable return	(1.40%)	8.50%
Finance [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Profitability Analysis [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Projected Return On Equity	14.00%	14.00%
Finance [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net income multiple	19.0	14.6
Tangible book value multiple	1.3	1.1
Liquidity discount	25.00%	25.00%
Comparable return	(1.40%)	8.50%
Finance [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Profitability Analysis [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Projected Return On Equity	14.00%	14.00%
Finance [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net income multiple	19.0	14.6
Tangible book value multiple	1.3	1.1
Liquidity discount	25.00%	25.00%
Comparable return	(1.40%)	8.50%
Finance [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Profitability Analysis [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Projected Return On Equity	14.00%	14.00%
Communications [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Equities	1,966	2,199
Communications [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Adjusted earnings multiple	9.4	9.4
Comparable return	(10.60%)	0.00%
Communications [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Adjusted earnings multiple	9.4	9.4
Comparable return	(10.60%)	0.00%
Communications [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Adjusted earnings multiple	9.4	9.4
Comparable return	(10.60%)	0.00%
Technology [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Equities	7,318	7,752
Technology [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Adjusted earnings multiple	8.3	4.4
Gross revenue/fair value	1.4	0.9
Technology [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Adjusted earnings multiple	8.3	4.4
Gross revenue/fair value	1.4	0.9
Technology [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Weighted market comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Adjusted earnings multiple	8.3	4.4
Gross revenue/fair value	1.4	0.9
Total return swaps [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Other invested assets carried at fair value	(1,115)	(520)
Total return swaps [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	3.50%	2.80%
Total return swaps [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	18.50%	18.90%
Total return swaps [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	14.30%	17.00%
Notes and loan receivables [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Other invested assets carried at fair value	14,879	21,280
Notes and loan receivables [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	17.50%	17.50%
Gross revenue/fair value	1.3	1.500
Notes and loan receivables [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	17.50%	17.50%
Gross revenue/fair value	1.6	1.500
Notes and loan receivables [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	17.50%	17.50%
Gross revenue/fair value	1.6	1.500
Notes and Loans Receivable 2 [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Other invested assets carried at fair value	9,589
Notes and Loans Receivable 2 [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	6.70%
Notes and Loans Receivable 2 [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	6.70%
Notes and Loans Receivable 2 [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	6.70%
Notes securitization [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Other invested assets carried at fair value	20,928	20,166
Notes securitization [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	3.50%	6.20%
Notes securitization [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	6.60%	6.20%
Notes securitization [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	6.30%	6.20%
Annuities and residuals [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Other invested assets carried at fair value	14,880	24,064
Annuities and residuals [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	5.30%	4.00%
Prepayment speed	0.00%	0.00%
Constant default rate	0.30%	0.30%
Annuities and residuals [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	8.10%	7.90%
Prepayment speed	15.00%	15.00%
Constant default rate	23.00%	35.00%
Annuities and residuals [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads	7.00%	5.80%
Prepayment speed	4.80%	6.40%
Constant default rate	7.60%	12.40%
Private Equity-Direct [Member] | Discounted Cash Flow And Weighted Market Comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Other invested assets carried at fair value	9,582	11,742
Private Equity-Direct [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted Cash Flow And Weighted Market Comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net income multiple	8.3	8.3
Tangible book value multiple	1.6	1.6
Recoverability of intangible assets	0.000	0.000
Private Equity-Direct [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted Cash Flow And Weighted Market Comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net income multiple	8.3	8.3
Tangible book value multiple	1.6	1.6
Recoverability of intangible assets	0.000	0.000
Private Equity-Direct [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted Cash Flow And Weighted Market Comparables [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net income multiple	8.3	8.3
Tangible book value multiple	1.6	1.6
Recoverability of intangible assets	0.000	0.000
Private equity funds [Member] | Lag reported market value | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Other invested assets carried at fair value	14,422	8,993
Private equity funds [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Lag reported market value | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net asset value, as reported	100.00%	100.00%
Market adjustments	(4.60%)	1.80%
Private equity funds [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Lag reported market value | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net asset value, as reported	100.00%	100.00%
Market adjustments	1.90%	9.80%
Private equity funds [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Lag reported market value | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net asset value, as reported	100.00%	100.00%
Market adjustments	(2.30%)	8.30%
Private Equity - Other [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Other invested assets carried at fair value	29,015	18,396
Private Equity - Other [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads		3.80%
Effective Yield	5.80%
Private Equity - Other [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads		3.80%
Effective Yield	5.80%
Private Equity - Other [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Discounted cash flow [Member] | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Credit spreads		3.80%
Effective Yield	5.80%
Other invested assets [Member] | Lag reported market value | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Funds held directly managed investments carried at fair value	$ 14,553	$ 15,165
Other invested assets [Member] | Minimum [Member] | Lag reported market value | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net asset value, as reported	100.00%	100.00%
Market adjustments	(12.90%)	(22.90%)
Other invested assets [Member] | Maximum [Member] | Lag reported market value | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net asset value, as reported	100.00%	100.00%
Market adjustments	0.00%	0.00%
Other invested assets [Member] | Weighted Average [Member] | Lag reported market value | Significant unobservable inputs (Level 3) [Member]
Fair Value Inputs Assets Quantitative Information [Line Items]
Net asset value, as reported	100.00%	100.00%
Market adjustments	(12.10%)	(15.50%)