Retirement, pension and other postretirement plans (Details 7) (USD $) In Thousands, unless otherwise specified	Oct. 31, 2011	Oct. 31, 2010	Oct. 31, 2009
Level 3 [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	$ 18,501	$ 17,699	$ 17,600
Pension plan, United States [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	184,701	175,864	113,356
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Cash [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	618	580
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Money market funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	1,845	19,224
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Basic materials [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	5,081	6,776
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Consumer goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	5,942	7,789
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Financial [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	6,989	9,768
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Healthcare [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	4,062	4,483
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Industrial goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	3,993	4,623
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Technology [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	4,767	4,339
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Utilities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	1,578	1,839
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Mutual funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	7,353	87,339
Pension plan, United States [Member] | US Government Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	24,224	14,329
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Corporate Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	35,514	14,489
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Other Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	826	57
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Insurance Contract [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Pooled Investment Funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	81,062	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Other [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	847	229
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	45,520	151,057
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Cash [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	618	580
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Money market funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	1,845	19,224
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Basic materials [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	5,081	6,776
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Consumer goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	5,942	7,789
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Financial [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	6,989	9,768
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Healthcare [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	4,062	4,483
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Industrial goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	3,993	4,623
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Technology [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	4,767	4,339
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Utilities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	1,578	1,839
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Mutual funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	7,353	87,339
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | US Government Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	2,445	4,068
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Corporate Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Other Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Insurance Contract [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Pooled Investment Funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Other [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	847	229
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	139,181	24,807
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Cash [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Money market funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Basic materials [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Consumer goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Financial [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Healthcare [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Industrial goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Technology [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Utilities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Mutual funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | US Government Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	21,779	10,261
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Corporate Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	35,514	14,489
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Other Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	826	57
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Insurance Contract [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Pooled Investment Funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	81,062	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Other [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Cash [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Money market funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Basic materials [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Consumer goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Financial [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Healthcare [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Industrial goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Technology [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Utilities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Mutual funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | US Government Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Corporate Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Other Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Insurance Contract [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Pooled Investment Funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan, United States [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Other [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	32,167	29,799	28,833
Pension plan International [Member] | Cash [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	322	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Money market funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	309
Pension plan International [Member] | Basic materials [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Consumer goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Financial [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Healthcare [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Industrial goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Technology [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Utilities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Mutual funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | US Government Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Corporate Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Other Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Insurance Contract [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	18,501	17,699
Pension plan International [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Pooled Investment Funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	13,344	11,791
Pension plan International [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Other [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	322	309
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Cash [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	322	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Money market funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	309
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Basic materials [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Consumer goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Financial [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Healthcare [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Industrial goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Technology [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Utilities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Mutual funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | US Government Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Corporate Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Other Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Insurance Contract [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Pooled Investment Funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 1 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Other [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	13,344	11,791
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Cash [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Money market funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Basic materials [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Consumer goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Financial [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Healthcare [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Industrial goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Technology [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Utilities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Mutual funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | US Government Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Corporate Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Other Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Insurance Contract [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Pooled Investment Funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	13,344	11,791
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 2 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Other [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	18,501	17,699
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Cash [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Money market funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Basic materials [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Consumer goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Financial [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Healthcare [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Industrial goods [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Technology [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Utilities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Mutual funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | US Government Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Corporate Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Other Debt Securities [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Insurance Contract [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	18,501	17,699
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Pooled Investment Funds [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	0	0
Pension plan International [Member] | Level 3 [Member] | Other Type Of Investments Other [Member]
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets
Fair values of Pension Plan Assets	$ 0	$ 0