Retirement, pension and other postretirement plans (Details 1) (USD $) In Thousands, unless otherwise specified	12 Months Ended
	Oct. 31, 2011	Oct. 31, 2010
Pension plan, United States [Member]
Summary of changes in accumulated other comprehensive (gain) loss
Balance at beginning of year	$ 126,144	$ 124,496
Net (gain) loss arising during the year	20,917	15,787
Prior service cost (credit) arising during the year	5	643
Net gain (loss) recognized during the year	(7,438)	(6,181)
Settlement loss		(8,022)
Prior service credit (cost) recognized during the year	(666)	(579)
Balance at end of year	138,962	126,144
Pension plan International [Member]
Summary of changes in accumulated other comprehensive (gain) loss
Balance at beginning of year	17,500	9,569
Net (gain) loss arising during the year	(1,773)	8,319
Prior service cost (credit) arising during the year	(1,210)
Net gain (loss) recognized during the year	(858)	(369)
Settlement loss		(190)
Prior service credit (cost) recognized during the year	(5)	(49)
Exchange rate effect during the year	82	220
Balance at end of year	$ 13,736	$ 17,500